Yonah (00:08)
My name is Yonah Nimmer and welcome to the Amazon Playbook, where we dive deep into the strategies and stories behind the most successful brands on Amazon. In previous conversations, we've talked to key partners who have been instrumental in the growth of brands like Anchor, Ray-Bans, and BioGents. This episode today is brought to you by Amazon Growth Lab. At AGL, we help brands on Amazon achieve explosive growth with a focus on organic visibility. Now Cam, I'm sure you know this better than anyone else.

Because we've been having the privilege of working with Thrival Muscle Recovery for the past four months, and we've seen your sales 3X. In just 120 days, AGL has helped Thrival scale from 67K in monthly revenue to nearly 200K. Now, does that mean we'll have the same results for everyone that works with us? No, not necessarily, but it's an illustration of what's possible. So if you're ready to take your Amazon presence to the next level, let's make it happen.

Visit AmazonGrowthLab.com to learn more. Now, before diving into today's guests, I want to give a quick shout out to Stu from Vista Fitness. If you're looking for top notch exercise equipment that elevates your fitness game, Vista Fitness has you covered. Big thanks to Stu and the team for helping so many stay in shape and crush their fitness goals. Now to the exciting part. Today's guest is Cameron Smith.

Cameron is the co-founder of Thrival Muscle Recovery, a wellness brand that he casually launched as a passion project while in college. Despite juggling the demands of being a computer science major at Boston College and competing as a Division I ski racer, Cameron turned a fun idea into a thriving business. His unique blend of athletic experience and entrepreneurial spirit is driving a mission to help people everywhere feel and move better in their everyday lives.

Cameron, thanks for coming on today.

Cameron Smith (02:09)
Thank you so much, Yonah. Good to be here.

Yonah (02:12)
Yeah, it's great to be here. So yeah, I know I gave you a little bit of an intro, but take us from the beginning of Thrival. Like to me, it's wild. I can't even imagine myself in college deciding to start a business. Most people in college are really worried about going to the latest frat party or sorority mixer. What made you decide that, hey, I really want to focus on

spending time not having just fun socializing but building something.

Cameron Smith (02:46)
Yeah. And so it was actually interesting because Thrivell started the year before college for me. And so I was a ski racer. I grew up ski racing, went to a boarding school for ski racing, and my goal was to be a professional skier. But eventually that goal changed to just being a collegiate skier. And I ended up taking two gap years for my sport. And in those two gap years, I had terrible back pain. Skiing has a lot of torque.

and it really can put a lot of load on your low back. So I was going to massage therapists constantly and those massage therapist appointments were very expensive.

Yonah (03:28)
Were you getting relief from massage therapy? Like, was it making it get better?

Cameron Smith (03:32)
It was, it was, but it was once a week and it didn't fully fix the problem because like if you get a release and then you go out there the next day and you put a lot of torque on your body again, you're just going to end up in the same spot two days later. So it was like a once a week. I can't afford going to the massage therapist three times a week and it takes a lot of time. And so that's when I started looking towards other tools out there. And quickly I found that

there wasn't a solution that I found was satisfactory in this space. then COVID hit. And so that's when the whole light bulb kind of went off with me and my best friend Dom, who I started with and my dad. But Dom and I started, we bought 3D printers and we just, it was honestly just like a fun idea at first, but.

Yonah (04:27)
You were manufacturing the product yourself initially.

Cameron Smith (04:30)
No, so it was just to like see if we could create a working prototype that was really, really good. about a month into it, we had like, okay, this is a really good idea.

Yonah (04:42)
And at this point in time, were you using the product for your own pain or you already had alleviated your pain with another product on the market and we're trying to replicate it?

Cameron Smith (04:52)
We weren't alleviating it with my own pain with Thrival yet. And I wasn't really alleviating my pain with other products either because I wasn't like super stoked with how they were. Like there was no product on the market that adjusted. And so that really bothered me because it's like, why is there no product that works for every person?

Yonah (05:15)
Just to back you up for a second, I know obviously I'm aware of the products that Thrival sell, but just for the audience who may not know Thrival yet, can you just break down, I know you're saying adjustable, but like what is the actual product you're talking about and what's it used for?

Cameron Smith (05:31)
Yeah, I should get into that. So Thrival is a muscle recovery tool that mimics the hand of a therapist actually. And there's different attachment heads that can go on this board, but there's a board and there's different attachment heads. And you can lay on the Thrival with your own body weight and that pressure will release your muscles in different ways. And we provide informational videos and all this different information to

effectively find relief on your own terms. And so that whole design process was to come up with a product that anybody could use. the product, you can adjust the width of the heads laterally so that any person could use the product on any muscle group.

Yonah (06:03)
Hmm

As in, it doesn't matter if you're trying to get psoas release or if you have pain in your neck. Ideally, this is a one for all. It's almost like going to the massage therapist and you can customize the experience to your own pain.

Cameron Smith (06:34)
Exactly. That's exactly, that was the exact goal of what we had. And when we looked at the other products on the market, they were originally just aimed at the SOAS. Like everyone else is aimed at just the SOAS. And when we were starting, we were like, okay, we want to create a SOAS tool that works for everybody. But as soon as we started sending this product to chiropractors and people that we trusted, we immediately recognized that this is not just a SOAS release tool. And don't get me wrong, ThriveLow is an amazing SOAS release tool.

Yonah (06:51)
I

Cameron Smith (07:04)
but it has so many more applications than just that. And that's when we knew we had something on our hands. And I think that's when my dad started believing in what Dom and I were doing. But it was a long refinement process. It was three months of, we bought four different 3D printers and just constantly editing. Those things were running 24 seven until we found.

Yonah (07:26)
How did you even have the money to be buying 3D printers at this time?

Cameron Smith (07:31)
My dad definitely helped with that. was probably, A 3D printer is actually not that crazy. A 3D printer can go between like 500. I think the ones that we got at the end were between 1500 and 2000. But we were running those things into the ground and it was pretty cool. And we learned a little bit of CAD, so we were able to make the shapes ourselves at the beginning, but it quickly evolved to, okay, a manufacturer doesn't just

Yonah (07:33)
Amazing.

Cameron Smith (08:00)
make a big block of plastic, we need to find a mechanical engineer to shell out the parts and make them manufacturable for making metal molds that'll eventually come to the US. Yeah.

Yonah (08:12)
So it sounds like initially you and your buddy, Dong, were like, hey, this is a fun, passion project. Let's just see if we can make something. I have my own personal experience where I dealt with pain. Let's see if we can create our own product that's better. At what point did suddenly it switch in your mind? I know you said your dad kind of had an epiphany, but for you, when did you have a realization, this is a business, we should sell it on Amazon?

Cameron Smith (08:18)
Yeah.

I think it was about a month into prototyping that we were like, this thing is, I mean, we just saw the other competitors and how much that market seemed to be a niche that was pretty decent sized and that no one on the market had created something of this level that adjusted. so there is, like we found our place in the market very early in terms of what

Yonah (09:08)
And did you know at that point in time, hey, Amazon is the place to sell it? Or did you think maybe D2C is the route?

Cameron Smith (09:15)
Honestly, we had no idea what we were doing. had, and it took a long time to figure out what we were doing. And that's, that's the most interesting part of starting a business, especially like before college. Like if I had been through college and taken the marketing classes that I have now, it would have been a very different story, but I knew nothing about marketing. didn't know. We knew we had to create a website and we knew we were probably going to sell it on Amazon. And that was about the

Yonah (09:18)
Yeah.

Cameron Smith (09:44)
the marketing, the level of marketing we had. We made every mistake on this on our first website was terrible. Yeah, but I think the one key factor that Thrival has kept Thrival afloat and kept it working since the beginning, it made us a threat to everyone else in the market is effectively our product was so well designed. Like the use of our product is effectively better than any of the other products out there.

Yonah (10:07)
Mmm.

Cameron Smith (10:14)
And learning how you guys at AGL have made other people recognize how good our product is in such a great way. But that's basically been the learning process of how to tell others, tell our customers or potential customers that Thrival is this amazing product. That's the hardest part of marketing.

Yonah (10:40)
So you launch on Amazon initially. How is it? Do you find yourself getting sales? Are you running PPC on your own? Walk me through the whole process from day one of launching.

Cameron Smith (10:52)
So day one of launching, our sales were so slow. We didn't know any technique. We went from consultant to consultant to consultant for honestly up until you guys, which was, I don't know, three to four years.

Yonah (11:09)
And then you partnered with a bunch of different agencies along the way.

Cameron Smith (11:13)
Yes, usually individual people, but our graphics were so bad up until January, I think it was February of this year. We had graphics that were simply just black and white with text and we were selling. the fact that we even sold that much with how bad our marketing was, just because you've said this to me, Yonah.

you're not selling an actual product on Amazon, you're selling an image. And you have to portray why your product...

Yonah (11:47)
can't touch the product, you can't feel the product, can't smell the product.

Cameron Smith (11:51)
Exactly. And so you have to be able to portray your product through an image. And understanding that is something that if I knew years ago, it would have been basically our marketing strategy since the beginning was we've heard of all these different aspects of marketing, influencer marketing, SEO, having a great website, Amazon ads, PPC ads, mean, search ads.

all these different things, we tried everything, but we didn't try anything in conjunction. And this is actually where I want to give a shout out to my professor, Professor Fisher at Boston College, strategic brand management professor. And he was the CEO of Salconee for a long time, but Professor Fisher's class taught me that you can't just throw shit against the wall effectively. You have to...

have a strategic plan and cap or like take, carry out that plan effectively. And the plan might not be right from the beginning, but you have to have a plan. understanding that we immediately cut down our company to almost bare bones. It was like AGL, it was like you guys and like a couple others, but.

We effectively cut our company down and we're slowly building it back up through a plan that's we're trying to carry out effective.

Yonah (13:24)
So it's interesting, you're talking about essentially, you know, just focusing on influencer marketing or just focusing on PPC. you know, this is a question that I get all the time where I think when we talked initially, I really honed in on the fact that you guys didn't really have much organic visibility for your product and how, you know, historically, if you look at cost per clicks on Amazon, you know, in the past 10 years, it's 15 X'd. You know, at one point in time, it was 10 cents. Now,

$1.50 isn't that bad. So where are we going to be headed in five years from now? And people ask all the time, hey, how do you get organic visibility? Is it running PPC? Is it influencer marketing? Is it good inventory management? Does it have to do the infographics and so on? And as you're saying, and you're saying it really eloquently, it's an ecosystem. And I like to almost say, hey, if you're trying to figure out how do I live a healthy lifestyle?

If you're sleeping, that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be healthy. If you're not sleeping, you won't be. But are you getting enough iron? Are you actually seeing the sun? Are you eating healthy? Are you exercising? And the moment that just one part of the ecosystem isn't being taken care of, the whole thing collapses. And the same is true with Amazon.

Cameron Smith (14:44)
It's not a univariate equation. It's a multivariable equation. yeah, and you go ahead. Yeah, I just think like if I could tell anyone else out there how to like, if I could go back, I would say pick. Here's another thing too, is to pick the thing that is most important to driving revenue and returning money, especially when you're a small startup like us.

Yonah (14:49)
100%. So, I'm keep going.

Cameron Smith (15:13)
If you could pick that one thing and try to do it effectively. like for us, Amazon is really important. That's a large portion of our revenue. And so I think coming to you, Yona, and finding someone who effectively knows how to do that thing, that one thing really, really well is really, really important before getting too spread out across multiple different spheres like PPC, SEO.

Yonah (15:20)
you

Cameron Smith (15:44)
Amazon, social media ads.

Yonah (15:44)
So what do you think have been the big needle movers? you know, firstly, when we started working together, you guys, as we talked about earlier, you were doing 60, 67 K in revenue, roughly. Now, I think, you know, last month you were at 189 K. I think we both agree for Thrival. The sky's the limit. Right. I think we both know we'll get to a point where you guys are doing 500 K a month. It's just a matter of is that going to be in three months from now or is that going to be in a year from now?

Cameron Smith (16:06)
thing.

Yonah (16:14)
But what do you think are the aspects that have really moved the needle for other people that are looking to launch a brand or even scale their brand and they're struggling to break out of that 60, 70 K a month mark?

Cameron Smith (16:30)
I'm trying to think of the things that effectively changed us the most. I think for us reviews, you guys really worked on the combination of how to organize our skews for reviews from an Amazon perspective. Secondly was you guys did a whole market brief of all our competitors, what was working for them, what wasn't working for them, what was working for us, what wasn't working for us.

and creative, creative, creative briefs for us that we could make great graphics. And so our click through rate not only went up so much, but also our conversion rate, because as you said, we were selling an image and that changed a lot. Those are probably the two aspects that moved the needle the most. Also, I'd say inventory management as well. I think you guys have helped us.

give guidance and when things are gonna go out the door a lot quicker. And so we had an instance earlier this year where we ran out of stock and that just can't happen. Like if I could have one thing not happen for Thrive Well Ever again, it's to run out of stock.

Yonah (17:48)
So let's break that down just because for most people, they think running out of stock isn't actually that bad. That's the best problem you can have because it means you have a lot of demand. What's the reason that you're so adamantly against it?

Cameron Smith (18:01)
Because your ranking goes, your organic ranking that you work so hard for immediately comes down. So our, our ranking was actually climbing at the first few months of the year. We actually did change our graphics at the beginning. They're not as, not nearly as good as they are now, but our ranking was climbing. We ran out of stock. We had a month and a half period where we were very low stock to almost no stock. And so we're not selling sets out the door. Amazon then just assumes that

you're not the client that converts and so your ranking goes down and then you get punished. And so I don't know if that's the best explanation for it, but yeah.

Yonah (18:38)
No, that's perfect. So, you know, what even made you decide to work with an agency? Because, you know, initially you guys said you were working with consultants and I imagine even before that you were doing everything yourself. And I know for me personally, because I came from a similar background of you, of I ran my own brand on Amazon and scaled it up and I really struggled to get rid of control. I think I still...

You know, I have to check myself in the mirror frequently, even with AGL, of ensuring, hey, I'm hiring people. You know, it's like we hire a CMO. Ideally, I trust the person. I don't micromanage because the moment I do, people don't feel empowered to work. So I'm curious, yeah, what even got you to be inspired to take a step back and hire someone else as opposed to what I think most new entrepreneurs do is I can do everything on my own.

Cameron Smith (19:33)
Yeah, that was the mentality I had. It was, I'm going to do the Instagram. I'm going to do the TikTok. I'm going to help with the website. I'm going to help with Amazon. at the very beginning, you have this mindset, like you've heard all the success stories where they just don't sleep and you're actually, this is going back one thing. We made the first 6,000 sets in our garage too, in Steamboat Colony. Yeah.

Yonah (19:59)
Wow. Was this on a 3D printer?

Cameron Smith (20:02)
No, no. we created the prototype, the metal molds. They made the first 6,000 sets in Taiwan and they shipped the sets unassembled. A container showed up at our live workspace in Colorado and we did because my dad didn't. So this is actually the...

Yonah (20:16)
assemble.

Did you know that they were coming unassembled?

Cameron Smith (20:29)
My dad's gonna hate hearing this again because I never stopped twisting the knife with this one. But the first year or so of Thrival was created with glued sets. So Thrival, when you lay on a set, it actually puts a lot of pressure on the product and that glue didn't hold up very well. So the first year the product wasn't properly made and I was the one gluing those products. So he didn't trust the glue.

job over from Taiwan. And so he asked them to send us the first 6,000 sets to America. And I made the first 6,000 sets and then went to school. The gluing process ended up at our manufacturer and they just were like, this is just the worst. And so we actually ran the stock three-ish years ago because we switched from gluing to sonic welding. And that's how our product is produced today. It's basically where two pieces of plastic are

vibrated together so fast that they melt into one. The actual seam line is stronger than the rest of the plastic product. But yeah, that's the story of how the glueing was a disaster. It was a disaster. that's an example of me feeling like I could take everything on. I would go ski. I'd come home. I'd glue. Then I'd work on the marketing side of the company. And going back to your point.

Yonah (21:32)
Mmm.

Wow, that's crazy.

Cameron Smith (21:57)
Now, my opinion of my job is to find the best people. There's no way as a 23 year old student at Boston College, I'm going to be the best Amazon consultant. I'm going to be the best person to run the Instagram, the best person to run the website. There's so many aspects of this business, even though it's just a simple plastic product to run a real marketing campaign.

across multiple different spheres takes so many smart people. And the chances are that you're the smartest person in each aspect of it is just zero. There's no way. And even engineering too, that's another part. there's manufacturing, engineering, supply chain, and then all these different marketing aspects. And so now I view my job more as finding the best people. So you guys in the Amazon and finding the best people and then

keeping the ball rolling with everyone. As you said, making sure everyone feels empowered to work and making sure that they have the tools necessary to do their job properly. So that's how my role is switched.

Yonah (23:06)
Yeah, I really relate to that in the sense that, you know, even like I spoke to you initially, and I think that the moment that someone is looking for help with Amazon, the person that they talked to initially, they get attached to. And I, you know, really quickly have to tell people if they sign up for our service, I'm not going to be the person managing your account because truth of the matter is I won't do as good of a job as the team. Right? So like

Athen, our managing director who works underneath me. The guy every day shocks me with his in-depth knowledge. like, truth is, he worked at Amazon for four years. He understands the ins and outs of Amazon better than I probably ever will. And...

Cameron Smith (23:51)
And he's a great guy too. He's a great guy too. Like, and Asif, like Asif's our account manager and Athen's the managing director for us. like, we're the, I'd say to give you guys credit, the constant communication with your company is so much quicker than any other brand that we've worked with. Like I'm always, as much as I'm talking about giving people space to do their job.

We also are in constant communication with from supply from a supply side for different ventures with you guys on Amazon and.

Yonah (24:28)
Yeah, out of curiosity, how long do you find that it usually takes to get responses when you're communicating on Slack?

Cameron Smith (24:34)
Usually five to ten minutes and then if they're asleep a couple three or four hours.

You have a class at 6.30? Is it okay if I'm here for a little bit longer? Like... yeah. Sorry. Sorry, Yonah.

Yonah (24:55)
No, no stress. Honestly, this is a perfect illustration, by the way, of what it's like to be a college student and run a business. It's amazing. Do you want to take a pause for a second and then

Cameron Smith (25:03)
Yes, Yep. Let me...

Yonah (25:08)
OK. So basically, a moment ago, you were just in a classroom. Suddenly, a professor came in and said, hey, we're having a class here. So now you found a new empty classroom. We got to continue.

I was saying how, one, it's not a problem at all, but it's just an illustration of how much you're balancing right now. You're both a student in school full time and you're running a business. Do you get overwhelmed?

Cameron Smith (25:36)
Definitely, yeah, all the time.

Yonah (25:39)
Is it hard to know which to prioritize between the two?

Cameron Smith (25:43)
Yeah, I think the way I look at it is I try to put Thrival first and I know I'll get the school done regardless because that's there's no choice there. So I think Thrival is more of a choice. So I try to prioritize Thrival and then school comes second. I'm a computer science major. I anyone who knows me knows I'm a normal guy.

Yonah (25:54)
Hmm

Cameron Smith (26:13)
I'm not, never, academics was never my strong suit. I went to a boarding school that was for ski racing. Had no grades actually, my high school.

Yonah (26:24)
So you're a D1 racer, you're a computer science major, and you run a business.

Cameron Smith (26:32)
And that's why I had to stop skiing. It was too much. The stress was too much. I actually had like stress issues freshman year. I was really trying to, I really believed I could do everything. I'm also a social guy too. And Boston College is a pretty social school. So I fit it all in. I did not miss a thing. I did Thrival. I did school. I struggled.

Yonah (26:35)
Yeah, makes sense.

Cameron Smith (27:00)
at school as well because of my transition of two gap years.

Yonah (27:04)
So as you're working with an agency, like as you're working with AGL, do you still find that there's a lot for you to do when it comes to the Amazon side of the business? Where's most of your time dedicated?

Cameron Smith (27:15)
100%. I mean, we still have, I'm still coordinating graphics for sure. Graphics. And then there's constant decision-making where there's a back and forth between ASIF, our brand manager and I on ad spent, which product to spend more on. There's different sales that we do explaining which inventory being on the same page regarding inventory.

There's a constant communication there, but that's just one aspect of the business. There's other aspects like the supply chain. The supply chain takes up a ton of my time. Then there's the social media side and you're dealing with that as well. Then there's web development side. So there's like four or five different aspects and AGL does take up a good part of my time. I feel like if I wanted to, I could be more reserved and let you guys go full on, but...

or take care of everything without me watching. But I still like to have that conversation and that's really good. And I really appreciate that I'm able to have that conversation, which is really awesome.

Yonah (28:26)
So, yeah, what do you see happening with Thrival in the coming months? For starters, did you envision that you would get to a point where you're doing 200k in one month? Is that like, wow, I've made it, we're finally here? Or is there a thought process of we're just getting started, we're barely scratching the surface of my vision?

Cameron Smith (28:48)
I think we're just scratching the surface. think AGL gave us the big jump that we needed to become a company that was struggling to a company that's successful. But I really believe that TRX, for example, was a company that they had workout bands and their founder,

figured out that this was something that everybody could use. Similar to a foam roller, I believe that Thrival is a tool that should be a household item for a lot of people. I don't think there's any tool like it that has the efficacy for different muscle groups around your body. So just from that vision standpoint, sometimes I have to remind myself to believe in it myself, but I...

I really think this tool has the efficacy to help so many more people than just selling very, very well within our niche. And I think the long term of Thrival is creating a brand that, not just a product, but a brand that people see as a tool that leads self myofascial release tools. like self manual therapy tools. And

Yonah (29:53)
Mm.

Cameron Smith (30:13)
Making that realization happen is gonna take time and it's gonna take time to create a brand, but I think we're on the right path and we're making the necessary steps to do so.

Yonah (30:25)
So when it comes to myofascial release, I always find it interesting how there almost feels like there's a divide between Western medicine and Eastern medicine. And I feel like myofascial release is a little bit of the bridge in between. But for the most part, anytime I've talked to doctors about myofascial release, they usually say, talk to a physical therapist. That's not really my domain. And from my understanding from a bunch of friends that have been in med school,

Myofascial release is, the fascia isn't something that is really investigated or talked about as much within the Western space. Do you see that changing within the industry in the next 20 years or do you think it'll continue to be more of Eastern philosophy?

Cameron Smith (31:19)
That's a very interesting point. I've never thought of it from that way. way I view myofascial release is it's basically deep tissue manual work where you press on a muscle for an extended period of time till it breaks the fibers enough that it actually releases the muscle. That type of therapy is used from

Yonah (31:19)
It's really...

Cameron Smith (31:46)
totally different spheres from massage therapy to physical therapists to chiropractors. And so there's, I think it's, it's a, the act of pressing hard on a muscle to release it is such an important thing for anyone who does physical activity and gets sore or gets tight.

And also for people who don't even do physical activity and have like you sit in a chair all day and you're going to get a tight QL in your low back and you're going to get tight hip flexors and your muscles are going to become fibrotic and being able to press deep into that muscle is really, really important. So I don't, that probably doesn't answer your question, but I, I do believe that this is something that Western medicine definitely

Yonah (32:23)
Hmm.

Cameron Smith (32:44)
definitely has realized for sure and I don't know too much about Eastern medicine to be honest but yeah but I think I think it's definitely something that's very very useful.

Yonah (32:50)
Yeah, makes sense.

Amazing. Yeah, I mean, I've been using your product now for four months and it's made a massive difference in just the flexibility and mobility that I feel on a day-to-day basis. I've personally seen the difference that I feel in my body and myofascial release wasn't something that I was even aware of before knowing of Thrival. So I'm personally grateful for that.

Cameron Smith (33:24)
That's awesome to hear. it's like one of the coolest aspects of this business is like, yes, the entrepreneurial side, but also seeing the reviews come in. And that is like the most spectacular thing for me is to see that someone's actual life can kind of be changed. that's it's hard for me to fathom that the tool really, really helps people.

Yonah (33:36)
Mmmmm

Totally.

Cameron Smith (33:52)
And that just makes it all more of the while. I think something that I really pride myself on with Thrival is, or pride Thrival on, is the fact that it costs less than a massage, like one massage. You can get a massage that will...

costs like 80, $90 and that'll help you that one time or you could purchase Thrible and that could last you years and years. the other thing too is it empowers people to take their own recovery into their own hands rather than offloading it to someone else because we provide so much information on how to release your own muscles that are actually from chiropractors and physical therapists. it's in a way it's

Yonah (34:40)
Hmm

Cameron Smith (34:41)
taking the physical therapist and bringing it to your home. I'm not saying to anyone that they shouldn't go to a physical therapist or a chiropractor, but I think in many ways it can be a tool that empowers people to take care of their own recovery on the

Yonah (34:58)
Yeah, it's amazing. didn't even realize that or think of it, but it makes such a difference as a business owner where most people that are selling on Amazon, they're selling a ceramic mug. They're selling a t-shirt with a dog printed on it, or they're selling a microphone. They're selling a product and a lot of people are selling a product as opposed to a brand. And the real difference here of having a brand as opposed to a product is you have a message.

You have an ethos that people want to stand behind. And it's cool to hear how inspiring that is just to, know, a lot of people get excited when they get more reviews because there's an internal thought process of my conversion rate is going to be better. Right. The numbers going up, but for you, it's more so, wow, I'm actually helping people. And yeah, it's cool to see how, how, how much that impacts you.

Cameron Smith (35:51)
Yeah, it really is. Yeah. I just think this, aspect of having a vision and a goal that's so much bigger than just selling something is it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. As an entrepreneur, it's so easy to get into that mindset as well. think Chiara is a girl on my ski team who, or the ski team I used to be on, and she's been working on Thrible all summer and a lot of this year.

Yonah (36:02)
Capital consumerism.

Cameron Smith (36:21)
And she's, I think the voice in the back of my head always telling me about where Thrive will supposed to go long term. And so I really appreciate that from her.

Yonah (36:29)
Hmm. What does that vision look like? What is she saying?

Cameron Smith (36:33)
It's like the brand stuff I just talked about, coming up with a brand that anybody can find relief on their own terms. so that displaying that message to everyone and just knowing that we're not just a product. It takes reminding even me as the co-founder, you have to believe it. And I really believe that we're just getting started.

Yonah (36:59)
So tangibly speaking, what are next steps? I know you said Amazon's been great. Do you see yourself continuing to solely focus on Amazon? Do you see yourself focusing on Shopify slash D2C? Do you see yourself going to Walmart? What are the next steps?

Cameron Smith (37:17)
I think D2C retail expanding to Europe and other countries. But I think D2C is a really big part. I think a lot of people go to their chiropractor right now and then they look up Hipflexor Release Tool and then we're the obvious choice in that category. But it would be really cool if we were able to go to the customer with our marketing.

And I think a lot of people don't recognize that they have this issue. it's our job to explain to them that there's something out there that can really help them in this area.

Yonah (38:00)
It's always difficult when there's an education process for the customer, right? It's one thing if a customer is searching so as release muscle, but they don't know why they should buy your product versus a competitor, right? Most people that are searching for so as release, they're not even under the assumption that there's a benefit to having one product that's multifunctional. So it makes sense that it's an uphill battle, especially with D2C where

Cameron Smith (38:05)
Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yep.

Yonah (38:30)
You know, on Amazon, usually you can get one to two touch points as opposed to D to C. It's not uncommon for to be seven to nine touch points before you actually get a sale or purchase. So it can be much more difficult and expensive. What is that strategy? What does that game plan look like?

Cameron Smith (38:38)
Yeah.

Yeah.

That game plan looks like having a holistic ecosystem, like you mentioned before, that really reflects our brand from the website to the social media and the ads that we're displaying. So like the whole customer journey from the very time you click on your first ad to when you purchase to then when after you purchase the retention and making sure that people are happy with their product and explaining that there's other products out there for them.

So like we have multiple different attachment heads. So sometimes people start with one and then they can repurchase and get the Thrival Arches or they can get the Thrival Ballhead. And so that journey, making sure that every single touch point, whether they've purchased it or they're just starting their journey, is all succinct is, I think it's a hell of a task. so that I think that's the first part and

making it so that we can do D2C and that education process as well. So I think ads, we're going to have a heavy focus on social media ads and organic content creation as well.

Yonah (40:02)
And are you thinking TikTok? Are you thinking Facebook? Or do you not know yet?

Cameron Smith (40:06)
We're going to be across all platforms. Right now, we're starting with Instagram, Facebook.

Yonah (40:12)
Are you doing this personally or are working with a company?

Cameron Smith (40:14)
I was personally doing it literally as of a month ago and now we're getting to that stage where I'm not going to be doing that anymore. yeah, it's done.

Yonah (40:22)
That sense. Just a quick shout out. We have a sister agency called Blue Tusker. They basically just focus on holistic D2C. So we can talk about it after, but if you want me to intro you, I'm happy to do so.

Cameron Smith (40:37)
I'm happy. I'm very happy to hear about it because Amazon Growth Labs has done wonders for us. So yeah. Yeah, I agree.

Yonah (40:43)
Appreciate it, man. We're just getting started.

So, okay, you know, we've heard about a couple hiccups that have happened along the way, right? You basically had 6,000 units sent to your own warehouse and you had to glue it yourself. Was that the doomsday, the worst day that you've dealt with as a business owner or what has been like the most stressful or hardest moment of your career so far?

Cameron Smith (41:11)
I think that or when the actual glue started breaking after I like I QC'd every one those QC stands for quality control for everyone out there but I QC'd every one of those products with my friend's little brother and that was terrible but at least we knew the product was perfect

There's been, can't even begin to tell you the amount of crappy moments we've had along the way. Anyone who's been close to me sees them and sees them more. But being an entrepreneur or having your own business is all, I'm sure you know this, Yona, but when something's wrong, it comes to you. You're effectively fixing all the worst problems of the company at all times.

So don't think I'd have one specific one, but I think the gluing was a definitely trialing time. think when the glue was breaking was a very trialing time. But there's also been like, there's just management problems between money, between inventory, the cashflow problem. There's so many issues that you come across. And I think I'm well versed enough in a lot of different little issues.

Yonah (42:31)
That sense. Makes a lot of sense. yeah, just as we come to our last few minutes, yeah, what are the long-term goals for this business? Do you want to sell the business in the future? Are you hoping to work on this business for the next 30 years? Has it not even been something that you've thought about? Yeah, when it comes to long-term, whether it's exiting or scaling, what are you hoping for?

Cameron Smith (42:32)
Yeah.

I think the plan is to scale until maybe an opportunity arises. I mean, I'm never going to say that there isn't going to be an opportunity, but I am very, very passionate about this business. I put so much of my work and time into this. It's not like I just want to give it. So I'd say as of right now, scaling.

I have no idea what's out there in the future. have no idea the potential of Thrival. I think I know the potential of Thrival, but I want to make that a reality first before any sort of offloading. But yeah, honestly, I don't have a great answer for you on that one yet, but just scaling. Yeah.

Yonah (43:45)
Yeah, not a problem. We'll just have to have you back in a year and you'll have to tell us what the future looks like.

Cameron Smith (43:51)
Yep, I think a year will be closer towards what the future will look like for sure. Yep.

Yonah (43:55)
I love that. yeah, just final question before we close this up. For someone who is just launching on Amazon, if you could give them one piece of advice, what would it be?

Cameron Smith (44:17)
ensure a good supply chain.

a good insurer. This is not one piece of advice, but it's yeah.

Yonah (44:26)
Okay, let me rephrase the question. Do you have any advice for anyone looking to launch a business on Amazon?

Cameron Smith (44:31)
Yeah. Yeah.

I'll give the bullets. Ensure a good supply chain at a fair price, have a fantastic product, and then find the right people to market it. I'd say that's the four steps. If you can do those four things, like if you don't have a good supply chain, if you have a crappy product and you don't have the right people to market it, those three things right there.

Yonah (44:38)
Hmm.

Words of wisdom because I can't tell you the amount of times I hop on a call with someone and they say, no, no, you don't understand. We have the best product on the market. I know we have a lot of negative reviews on Amazon, but these are people that don't understand the products amazing because everyone thinks they have the best product because it's theirs.

Cameron Smith (45:08)
Yeah.

Yeah, I completely agree. You have to have something that's interestingly different than other people. Interestingly different, like that's what Thrible is. It is interestingly different and that's functional. It can't just be something completely different that doesn't work. so finding that place in the market where you fit is not an easy thing. yeah, if you have that, then you're...

Yonah (45:25)
Mmm.

Cameron Smith (45:46)
much farther than most people and then finding people like you at AGL, finding you at AGL, Yona, makes it a whole lot easier.

Yonah (45:55)
Well, we're really grateful and lucky to be working with you and we're just getting started over here.

Cameron Smith (46:01)
Likewise likewise. Yeah, we are just getting started so can't wait

Yonah (46:03)
For anyone that wants to learn more about Thrival or reach out to you, what's the best way for them to learn more information?

Cameron Smith (46:13)
To learn more information, go to our website at ThrivalMuscleRecovery.com. We have a how-to page on all the different body areas where you can use Thrival. And if you ever wanted to contact me personally, you could go into the contact page at Thrival and I answer those emails to this day. So there you go.

Yonah (46:32)
I don't know man, someone could be listening to this in a year from now and you may have a team of 10 on the customer service team.

Cameron Smith (46:38)
Yes, hope that that is the case.

Yonah (46:43)
Well, thanks for being on. Really appreciate it,

Cameron Smith (46:46)
Thank you, Yonah.